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document.write("USER COMMENTS >");
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JUDICIAL SYSTEM
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document.write("This is not even worth debating. The judicial system worked well before. The Dept. of Justice, Police and Correctional Service need to work as a team as before.
Hlophe look at Botswana , do you think they have African law, no my friend. The same as us , only diffs they have a Judicial System that works, not Judges like you who are never on the bench, but waist their time on grap like this. Catch a wake up Hlophe!. Koos");
document.write("Africanisation of the Law?
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document.write("Hlophe's commenst echo those made some time ago by the then Minister of Justice that Judges should be more sensitive to the history of SA...presumably suggesting that an individual's conduct should be assessed in some sort of balancing act where prior plus points for participation in the struggle for freedom can be used to offset minus points for current misconduct.
In the context of our national leadership such an approach would effectively render the struggle and the sacrifices many (who are no longer with us) made in it of no value. Surely laws need to protect the values of the society which creates them. Allowing discretion in deciding that rules have only been bent because the person bending them has an apparently commendable past is a first step on a downward spiral which will, inevitably, end in anarchy. Indeed recent experience suggests that we are already well on the way to that state. Schabir Schaik; Tony Yengeni...not once but twice and indeed our current president where the argument put forweard was that it was not in the country's interest for him to be prosecuted. If there was a case to answer then surely all parties' interests are only properly served by prosecution. The law and its administration has to focus on absolutes... did a rule exist... was it broken.. is the consequence consistent. It is exactly the same principle as used in Labour Law to determine fairness.. you excuse a \"good guy\" employee for an offence which you then take another less favoured employee to task over... unfair labour practice which will create problems in the workplace and at the CCMA, should you end up there.. Mike");
document.write("Really??
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document.write("In a recent program on SABC, they debated the xenophobia issue and had viewers sms or call in with their feelings regarding foreigners in SA. 68% of callers wanted to foreigners out. So this thing about SA's judiciary system becoming \"africanized\" is an oxymoron. . Chris");
document.write("Judicial debeat
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document.write("Your first correspondent says: \"It is plainly evident that our judicial system is in urgent need of reform...\" Really? Where is the plain evidence for this sweeping statement. The Bench is by a far distance the most transformed body in the land, and yet retains its intellectual capital. It is plainly evident that your writer adds nothing but his own opinion to this debate. It is my opinion that five feet below its surface, the moon is made of green cheese, as was plainly evident to thousands of people in the past. We should therefore go to the moon immediately, fill up with cheese and end starvation on earth. Etc . jonos");
document.write("Viva Jonos
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document.write("@ Jonos. ");
document.write("We all know where Hlophe is coming from!
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document.write("He is not fit to be Chief Justice because he has an agenda and he is not impartial. He also thinks he is above the law. This is so typical of African leadership thinking. perhaps this is the culture and values he talks about. He is the type that will not allow strong institutions to support the rule of law. On the contrary he will make whatever changes he can to ensure the elite few hold onto power and remain above the law. In short Hlophe is bad news for the Judicial System in RSA.. John");
document.write("Africanisation/Law
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document.write("I'm glad that Ebrahim acknowledges that Hlophe is maligned & not a saint! One cannot retrogress, whether in Africa or anywhere else, laws are there to be upheld, the ignorance of them is no excuse. They are there to protect as well as punish, & must not be abused as we've seen in the very recent past! There is a notion in Africa that \"Western\" law can be fobbed off, but the trappings of modernity are fine to hang on to, at ALL costs, at the expense of one's compatriots. And if I don't like the law because I've been caught out, just sweep it under the carpet & all's forgotten. But woe-betide if someone else infringes it! Particularly if they're of a paler shade! Hlophe wants the \"africanisation\" to work for him & his agenda & ###### the rest! . Mobster");
document.write("The Hlophe slope
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document.write("In Afrikaans they say: Die appel val nie ver van die boom'. It's a useful analogy to use when assessing a situation. For example, if Yengeni was to advise on the laws regarding remuneration and cars for parliamentarians, I would be just a teeny-weeny suspicious. Same if Bernard Madoff or J Arthur Brown announced a new get-rich scheme. Now we come to Judge Hlophe.
He tried to influence Judge Jafta and Judge Nkabinde to rule in favour of Zuma in his corruption case. He attacked the highly respected Chief Justice Pius Langa. He is alleged to have referred to a local lawyer as \"as piece of white sh#t\". Now he is calling for 'Africanisation' of the law - whatever this means. And he has said he is available for the post of Chief Justice. Frankly, we do not need people like this heading up our justice system. Not unless we wish to become another Zimbabwe.. chas");
document.write("Hlophe
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document.write("Where Hlophe is concerned replace \"Africanised\" with \"corrupted\" and you get the picture. . Clive");
document.write("Africanise everything else then Ebrahim
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document.write("Lets all go back to living in kraals, herding cattle, wearing animal skins and doing all things uncivilised. It amazes me how people like Hlope says things when it suits them yet at the same time enjoy all things of the western world with no credit, i.e armani suits, roads, cars with wheels, aeroplanes, fancy restaurants, hot water, stoves, cell phones.....list is endless.....ask the b astard to go back to living like the orginal african and you will be surprised by his response. . Shaun");
document.write("Let sleeping dog rest......(History)
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document.write("Instead of worrying about changing a justice system that have worked (to some extend), why don’t people like government official rather spend their time, efforts and the taxpayers money on finding suitable alternatives to reduce poverty and curb ever increasing food prices? I suppose SOME people just don’t have anything better to do, than to sit and dwell on the past. I think its high tide for people like Hlope to realize that those days are long gone. Wasn’t it the ANC who said this is the new South Africa? Forget the past and live for the future. If the ministers and leaders can not do that, how can they expect that from the rest of us?. Debbie");
document.write("AFRICANISATION
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document.write("Africanisation? What is it? We need to debate what is an African? In the South African political sense it means to be a black indigenous person. But what does it mean to the person in the street like me who is white and neither a confused Afro American nor an Afro Brit/Euro. What about all the others being Indian, coloured, another(s). What are they? I am African born and a proud native of South Africa. Thus I am an African. As the argument on Africanisation as given above, it would seem that Hlope has the desire to remove what is already black and replace with his \"own\" brand of Africanaisation based on political aspirations. Why is it that just about everything is politicised and the real work of judges and others is left behind and we wonder why delivery does not take place! Makes you think doen't it.. BEB");
document.write("@ Shaun
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document.write("people have lost jobs for spewing the nonsense you are spewing (David Bullard). Frankly I think it is ignorant. What makes you think Africans would still be living in kraals, hearding cattle etc if they had not been colonised? secondly, what makes you think they were unhappy with their way of life prior to colonisation? Think b4 u speak! Rearranging your Prejudices to suit your argument does not qualify as thinking!. Tintin");
document.write("How do you 'Africanise' the law aginst murder, rape or theft?!
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document.write("I am a 'white' 10th generation African, my grandson is 12th generation. We are not citizens of any other country. We were all born here and are going nowhere else. Are we not Africans too? Of course we are! So what does 'Africanisation' really mean? Sounds like cheap politial retoric. How do you 'Africanise' the laws against murder, rape, theft or fraud? Hlope is talking drivel as usual. What an embarasment to all Africans to have him as a judge on the SA bench! . Pieter de Beer");
document.write("Ethnic backgrounds already catered for by INTELLIGENT judges
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document.write("As pointed out, we are a society composed of many different backgrounds.Judges of any calibre already take the differing values into account when passing sentence. \"Jou ma se ...\" can be considred part of conversation by many from white or mixed background,and not a reason to assault the speaker, but would be considered extenuating circumsatnces should it be directed to black person. So the need is to appoint judges who have some intelligence.. Jonny");
document.write("Who is the common denominator?
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document.write("He took money from the Plaintiff's who wanted to sue Judge Desai, and apart from that, also never declared, in writing, that he had been receiving the money in the first place, as he (a judge) should have. He alleged, conveniently that he had received oral permission... Where are his tax returns, have those payments been declared? I wonder, the question was fizzled away and the JSC very generously let him off for that one... (they, i.e. especially the recently fired members, must feel pretty annoyed) and then, in the meantime, he verbally apologises to his colleagues, like Judge Traverso, for suggesting they are racists, then nevertheless again accuses them in a written report. He did not tell anyone his son was receiving financial support from a law firm that must have, on many occasions, have been arguing cases on behalf of their clients before him. (Here I don't want to make any moral distinction between Hlophe and the law firm in question) And then he tries to influence the constitutional court judges, and then calls them liars when they raise the alarm, and calls accuses them of abusing his rights when he suddenly files a sick note when it was his opportunity to defend himself. He managed to play for time, and now, with the JSC being reshuffled a la NPA, we can expect nothing less than another \"political solution\" to avoid the legal consequences of ones actions. Instead of submitting to the Rule of Law, he now he wants to Africanize the law... He complains about too much Roman-Dutch and English influence. Interesting coming from him. Why did he then go study law in England? I think Judge Hlophe, as a legal scholar, may still be an asset to our society, but as a judge, I think his sensitive character (at times having used expletives to refer to white lawyers) and questionable judgment does not make for being a good judge. His talk of Africanizing the law is a good thing, if it was meant to stir the necessary debate, but I cannot help smelling cheap populist politics as being the real reason for it. For the record, I am white, so anyone who wants to duck the facts and dismiss my views on that basis alone, be my guest. . Justinian");
document.write("judicial system to be Africanised.
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document.write("The South African Judicial System has already been Africanised and it is abundently evident that there many officials on all levels of government including Hlophe who are free to enjoy a lavish western style of living instead of being behind bars, where they would do less damage to society as a whole.. Turbo 1");
document.write("Africanisation of the law
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document.write("It is very sad and disturbing that some people prefer to shift the goal posts as opposed to dealing with the issues. What Judge President Hlophe said is correct. The law should be aligned with the values of the people it regulate. Laws are made by people (legislators and to some extent judicial officers) and therefore it follows that the law must be in line with the values, ideals, principles of (in our case) south africans.
Let's stop attacking the player (Judge President Hlophe) and instead tackle the game (africanisation of the South African law). It does not assist anyone to debate about a person and how that person has an agenda. South Africans let's wake up before it's too late.. straight-talk");
document.write("AFRICANISATION
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document.write("WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES. NO NEED TO AFRICANISE, IT DONE YEARS AGO. SIT BACK AND WATCHG THE HOOLIGANS.. HANNAH");
document.write("Hit the nail Rebekkah
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document.write("The law must reflect the common ideals of society. The operative word, being common. To customise the law based on the culture or values of the accused leaves us without a reason to arrest him in the first place!. freddie");
document.write("Promotion
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document.write("You simply will not win against Hlope because he is \"crony-connected\". So, one way to defuse the issue to the satisfaction of all sides (and to save what is left of the Justice system) is to promote the man. Make him ambassador to the UN or the UK or some other prestigious location.. Maharg");
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