An aspirant judge ruffled feathers during her interview with the Judicial Service Commission (JSC) on Tuesday when she said transformation of the judiciary would only be complete when "the Zumas of this world" briefed black counsel.

Advocate Sita Kolbe SC, an advocate at the Johannesburg bar, argued that the best way of dealing with discrimination was to train black lawyers until they were clients' natural first choice because they were "brilliant" and perceived as the best money could hire.

"There will only be real transformation in my view one day when, when the Zumas of this world find themselves in a spot of bother, we see a black face representing them and not a white face."

Kolbe added that the problem was underlined by former police commissioner Jackie Selebi's decision to employ seasoned white advocate Jaap Cilliers to represent him in his corruption trial currently underway in Johannesburg.

She was reprimanded by Chief Justice Sandile Ngcobo who described her remark about President Jacob Zuma as unfortunate because "it amounts to being disrespectful to the president".

Kolbe replied: "No, not at all."

She said she had mentioned Zuma, who called on Kemp J Kemp SC when he faced corruption charges linked to the arms deal that were finally withdrawn in April, as an example because he was a prominent person whose choices did not go unnoticed.

Kolbe endured intense grilling from the JSC over her open clashes with Advocates For Transformation (AFT) about how to effect racial parity in the top ranks of the legal profession.

She said she believed AFT clamoured for change but did not do enough to make it a reality by helping black lawyers to achieve the merit to advance.

Kolbe 'absolutely abrasive'?

Among those to challenge her was new commissioner Ishmael Semenya, a prominent colleague at the Johannesburg bar, who said the constitutional requirement for racial representation in the judiciary could not wait until "all black lawyers are specialists".

He added that Kolbe had a reputation for being "absolutely abrasive".

Without naming any, Kolbe said good black lawyers often attracted so much government work that they did not move on to more challenging cases.

Gauteng Judge President Bernard Ngoepe asked Kolbe whether she was implying that black lawyers were "unbrilliant" to which she responded that this applied to the majority of advocates of all races.

Kolbe said she had long been involved in training black advocates because she believed this was the only way to redress racial imbalances.

"I'm not a politician, I cannot sit and talk about nice policies, I can train."

The debate was smoothed over by Justice Minister Jeff Radebe, who said it seemed Kolbe was simply explaining her practical contribution to transformation rather than dramatically differing with the dominant definition of transformation.

Kolbe also unexpectedly found succour from AFT chairman Dumisa Ntsebeza. He recalled that the Sunday Times had recently also noted the anomaly of Zuma, Selebi and axed national prosecuting chief Vusi Pikoli all hiring white counsel.

She was one of six candidates interviewed for positions on the North and South Gauteng benches.